Xbox LIVE Indie Games
Sort Discussions: Previous Discussion Next Discussion
Page 1 of 3 (52 posts) 1 2 3 Next >

List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

Last post 5/18/2009 11:45 PM by nikescar. 51 replies.
  • 4/15/2009 4:46 AM

    List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    I was wondering if anyone knows of a list of commercially released games made with the XNA Framework? I am specifically wondering which Xbox Live Arcade games use it but also wouldn't mind hearing about any commercial titles released in retail channels or digitally for Windows. I am trying to provide my partner (in crime not life ;) ) with a list of commercial games made with the XNA Framework as evidence that we should use it instead of some other product and all I know for sure is that The Dishwasher used it. I know a few other Live Arcade titles did as well but I can't remember which ones and no one seems to be maintaining a list on Wikipedia or anywhere else that I looked.
  • 4/15/2009 4:51 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    As far as published games, I believe it is Dishwasher and one other Arcade title, but a few more are in the works. I don't know of any commercial titles, but Microsoft has said it is possible if you can get the green-light
  • 4/15/2009 5:50 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Well technically this page lists a whole bunch of commercial games with XNA Game Studio.
  • 4/15/2009 7:32 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    If you mean XBLA games then

    Released:
    Schizoid
    Dishwasher

    Coming 'soon' to XBLA:
    Blazing Birds
    YoHo Kablama
    Rocket Riot
  • 4/15/2009 8:42 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    I wish some big budget game studio (Microsoft Game Studios?) would develop a commercial quality Windows game in XNA along the caliber of Halo just to show it can be done (if it can?). That would rock, and might cause other big studios to use XNA for future projects.
  • 4/15/2009 9:02 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Hello! :D
  • 4/15/2009 11:55 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Kyle W:
    I wish some big budget game studio (Microsoft Game Studios?) would develop a commercial quality Windows game in XNA along the caliber of Halo just to show it can be done (if it can?). That would rock, and might cause other big studios to use XNA for future projects.

    The things is XNA isn't really appropriate for that sort of game. It probably could be done, but there'd be no point other than to show it could be done.

    To the OP: I think the best way to convince your partner that XNA is the best tool for the job is that if you use it you open up the possibility of using a cheap retail channel on a popular console to sell your game on.
  • 4/15/2009 12:08 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Psyk60:
    The things is XNA isn't really appropriate for that sort of game. It probably could be done, but there'd be no point other than to show it could be done.


    Can you elaborate on this point? It doesn't make sense to me.
  • 4/15/2009 2:23 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Craig Martin:
    Psyk60:
    The things is XNA isn't really appropriate for that sort of game. It probably could be done, but there'd be no point other than to show it could be done.


    Can you elaborate on this point? It doesn't make sense to me.
    It would be harder to make Gears of War III in XNA than to just make it in native code.
  • 4/15/2009 4:21 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Harald Maassen:
    Craig Martin:
    Psyk60:
    The things is XNA isn't really appropriate for that sort of game. It probably could be done, but there'd be no point other than to show it could be done.


    Can you elaborate on this point? It doesn't make sense to me.
    It would be harder to make Gears of War III in XNA than to just make it in native code.

    actually quite the opposite.  It's more lines of code to get DX up and running in native code (c/c++) than it is with XNA.  Just because there hasn't been a AAA title made with XNA doesn't mean it isn't possible.  XNA can do anything that DX can do because it's a wrapper of native DX.  So to say that you can't make XXX in XNA when you can in native DX isn't a true statement.  I bet if you had 20 programmers and 50 artists working on a game, whether you use DX in C/C++ or DX via XNA in C#, you will still end up with a fast, quality product.

    I've written a FPS game in XNA and it was quicker than the same demo written in C++ with native DirectX.  After all, it's not the framework that's holding you back, it's your programming knowledge.
  • 4/15/2009 5:18 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    I agree with Aeon. Although because XNA is a framework for a managed language, it may be harder to squeeze that extra bit of performance out, so native games will always have the slight advantage, it is regardless much easier to produce those quality titles with XNA. The main issue is just that XNA is being marketed to the Indie scene, not the pro scene. I imagine once the bugs and issues are ironed out, MS will start marketing to a larger audience.
  • 4/15/2009 5:27 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Yeah, I can definitely see a triple-A title being developed in the XNA framework, and I think it's only a matter of time before that starts happening.  The technical limitations are not a major hurdle.  As mentioned above, XNA games can be quite fast.  The only real issue is that it would be difficult to port an XNA game over to, say, the PS3--you'd have to basically start over from scratch on the coding side.  But I absolutely believe that Microsoft intends XNA to be used for AAA PC/360 games eventually--they're already expanding the brand more and more, identifying it with broader game development for Microsoft platforms.
  • 4/15/2009 9:08 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Anchorcast:
    Yeah, I can definitely see a triple-A title being developed in the XNA framework, and I think it's only a matter of time before that starts happening.  The technical limitations are not a major hurdle.  As mentioned above, XNA games can be quite fast.  The only real issue is that it would be difficult to port an XNA game over to, say, the PS3--you'd have to basically start over from scratch on the coding side.  But I absolutely believe that Microsoft intends XNA to be used for AAA PC/360 games eventually--they're already expanding the brand more and more, identifying it with broader game development for Microsoft platforms.


    I was just about the highlight the portability issues. The performance on XNA isn't bad. It's not quite at the level you can get with C++ using hardware features, but it's decent enough for most projects. Portability is a HUGE issue, however. Since every platform supports C++, it's not very hard to realize that it's basically the only option for big studios. C# is a great language and all, but we all know that it will never run on anything except Windows and MS consoles. (Yes, I know about mono, but that's a toy as far as game development is concerned)

    Regardless of the amount of time savings a high level language like C# might provide during the development cycle, the market limitations are quite severe. For an extra 20% investment in development time, to be able to release to at least one other console, and potentially Mac as well, there isn't even any debate for a big studio.

    Of course, we all know that's exactly why MS created XNA in the first place. They wanted to have a captive marketplace that they could call their own and not have to compete with Sony. I seriously doubt any of the games released for XNA will be coming out for PS3/Wii any time soon. The effort required is just too great.

  • 4/15/2009 9:14 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Harald Maassen:
    Hello! :D


    I am only putting two and two together right now.  You made Rocket Riot which is hitting XBLA?  That's a cool game.  I was wondering what happened to it.  I had no idea it was going to XBLA.  So, congratulations on that!
  • 4/15/2009 9:22 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Anchorcast:
    But I absolutely believe that Microsoft intends XNA to be used for AAA PC/360 games eventually--they're already expanding the brand more and more, identifying it with broader game development for Microsoft platforms.
    XNA has always been a broad name that represents all game technologies at Microsoft. They simply failed to market it properly and everyone here got lazy and pretty soon "XNA" meant "XNA Game Studio" or "XNA Framework". As is it is completely accurate to state that every game on the Xbox 360 and every game utilizing DirectX is using XNA. Gears of War 2 was made with XNA.

    As far as XNA Game Studio/XNA Framework being used for AAA titles, we'll see. I believe you could definitely do it on PC where you can easily offload heavy performance sensitive code to native libraries while writing the rest of your game in C#. This gives the best of both worlds, really, as C# and XNA Game Studio get you up and running pretty quickly, but you don't have to sacrifice using Havok, PhysX, or whatever.

    On the Xbox 360 it's really hurt by the fact that it's based on the .NET Compact Framework. The poor inlining, poor floating point performance, and the lack of native interop basically kill heavy performance games. The non-generational garbage collector also isn't the best in the world. I hope and pray Microsoft is looking into either using x86 processor in the next Xbox (so they can more easily leverage the full desktop CLR with its JIT compiler) or they are working on fully porting the desktop CLR. While it does take more memory overhead, RAM is getting dirt cheap and the gains in performance will definitely help solidify the argument of using managed code for games.
  • 4/15/2009 10:24 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Nick Gravelyn:
    On the Xbox 360 it's really hurt by the fact that it's based on the .NET Compact Framework. The poor inlining, poor floating point performance, and the lack of native interop basically kill heavy performance games. The non-generational garbage collector also isn't the best in the world. I hope and pray Microsoft is looking into either using x86 processor in the next Xbox (so they can more easily leverage the full desktop CLR with its JIT compiler) or they are working on fully porting the desktop CLR. While it does take more memory overhead, RAM is getting dirt cheap and the gains in performance will definitely help solidify the argument of using managed code for games.
    This.

    People have already complained about running into float performance issues with XNA games. There are also other issues such as the Unreal Engine not being fit for XNA, XNA Game Studio not scaling well for large projects, and all the sandbox restrictions that it imposes.

    I like to think that, Moore's Law permitting, we will see a shift toward managed languages, but not yet.

    (also, @Matthew: "made" is far too much credit. I worked on it :) )
  • 4/15/2009 10:24 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    SeventhGearProductions:
    Anchorcast:
    Yeah, I can definitely see a triple-A title being developed in the XNA framework, and I think it's only a matter of time before that starts happening.  The technical limitations are not a major hurdle.  As mentioned above, XNA games can be quite fast.  The only real issue is that it would be difficult to port an XNA game over to, say, the PS3--you'd have to basically start over from scratch on the coding side.  But I absolutely believe that Microsoft intends XNA to be used for AAA PC/360 games eventually--they're already expanding the brand more and more, identifying it with broader game development for Microsoft platforms.

     I seriously doubt any of the games released for XNA will be coming out for PS3/Wii any time soon. The effort required is just too great.


    Were beginning to look at porting any potential XBLA titles over to PSN. Converting between XNA and DirectX or OpenGL isn't to bad depending on what your doing. With 2D games it call comes down to replacing sprite batch with a trianglestrip or quad texture mapped polygon in a ortho view basically. Input, sound, and networking is of course vastly different depending, but besides networking I doubt that is much of a big issue really. The rest of your code depending can generally port from C# to C++ fairly quickly, with only some restructuring needed most of the time in my experience.

    -Zenroth
  • 4/16/2009 7:45 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    The ZMan:
    If you mean XBLA games then

    Released:
    Schizoid
    Dishwasher

    Coming 'soon' to XBLA:
    Blazing Birds
    YoHo Kablama
    Rocket Riot
    Wasn't Aegis Wing also made with XNA Game Studio? And yea I mostly meant XBLA games. Very few of the Community Games are even close to commercial quality IMHO.

    Anyway my partner thinks we should target the iPhone but I want to target the Xbox 360. Ultimately I am doing most of the code for either platform so I guess I could override (not a great way to build a partnership though) him but I have talked him into doing an XNA version first and then perhaps a dumbed down iPhone version reusing the art (his area of expertise) at a later date.
  • 4/16/2009 10:44 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Rykin Poe:
    Wasn't Aegis Wing also made with XNA Game Studio?
    I don't think so. It was always said that Schizoid was the first XBLA game using XNA Game Studio.

    And yea I mostly meant XBLA games. Very few of the Community Games are even close to commercial quality IMHO.
    You said commercial games. They are for sale. Therefore they are commercial games. ;)

    Anyway my partner thinks we should target the iPhone but I want to target the Xbox 360. Ultimately I am doing most of the code for either platform so I guess I could override (not a great way to build a partnership though) him but I have talked him into doing an XNA version first and then perhaps a dumbed down iPhone version reusing the art (his area of expertise) at a later date.
    I'd say figure out on which platform your idea works better. It's highly unlikely the idea will work equally well on both platforms.

    Ultimately showing someone a list of games made with a specific technology as "proof" you should use it is silly. I can point out three trillion things made with C and C++, but that doesn't make it the best tool for me. You should pick based on what platforms you want to target and with which technologies you are most comfortable.
  • 4/16/2009 11:05 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Aeon:
    Harald Maassen:
    Craig Martin:
    Psyk60:
    The things is XNA isn't really appropriate for that sort of game. It probably could be done, but there'd be no point other than to show it could be done.


    Can you elaborate on this point? It doesn't make sense to me.
    It would be harder to make Gears of War III in XNA than to just make it in native code.

    actually quite the opposite.  It's more lines of code to get DX up and running in native code (c/c++) than it is with XNA.  Just because there hasn't been a AAA title made with XNA doesn't mean it isn't possible.  XNA can do anything that DX can do because it's a wrapper of native DX.  So to say that you can't make XXX in XNA when you can in native DX isn't a true statement.  I bet if you had 20 programmers and 50 artists working on a game, whether you use DX in C/C++ or DX via XNA in C#, you will still end up with a fast, quality product.

    I've written a FPS game in XNA and it was quicker than the same demo written in C++ with native DirectX.  After all, it's not the framework that's holding you back, it's your programming knowledge.

    Sure it's quicker to get a basic game up and running with the XNA framework than with native code. But if you wanted to do everything that Gears of War does and have it run just the same, that would be difficult. Presumably GoWII is pushing the hardware pretty hard. You may be able to do it with the framework as it is now, but it would involve a lot of workarounds. It would be like trying to win the Tour De France on a bicycle with stabilisers. Sure it's easier to get on the bike and start riding, but those stabilisers are going to hold you back if you want to go really fast.
  • 4/16/2009 1:52 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Psyk60:
    Sure it's quicker to get a basic game up and running with the XNA framework than with native code. But if you wanted to do everything that Gears of War does and have it run just the same, that would be difficult. Presumably GoWII is pushing the hardware pretty hard. You may be able to do it with the framework as it is now, but it would involve a lot of workarounds.

    "Presumably", "may". Until someone tries, no one will ever know. End of story.
  • 4/17/2009 6:12 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Nick Gravelyn:
    Rykin Poe:
    Wasn't Aegis Wing also made with XNA Game Studio?
    I don't think so. It was always said that Schizoid was the first XBLA game using XNA Game Studio.

    And yea I mostly meant XBLA games. Very few of the Community Games are even close to commercial quality IMHO.
    You said commercial games. They are for sale. Therefore they are commercial games. ;)

    Anyway my partner thinks we should target the iPhone but I want to target the Xbox 360. Ultimately I am doing most of the code for either platform so I guess I could override (not a great way to build a partnership though) him but I have talked him into doing an XNA version first and then perhaps a dumbed down iPhone version reusing the art (his area of expertise) at a later date.
    I'd say figure out on which platform your idea works better. It's highly unlikely the idea will work equally well on both platforms.

    Ultimately showing someone a list of games made with a specific technology as "proof" you should use it is silly. I can point out three trillion things made with C and C++, but that doesn't make it the best tool for me. You should pick based on what platforms you want to target and with which technologies you are most comfortable.
    They may technically be commercial games but very few are anywhere near commercial quality.

    I wasn't looking for a list of games to show him, I was looking for some quality games made with the toolset to show him what the toolset is capable of in the right hands.

    Like I said "dumbed down" the game should work on the iPhone. We are planning a 2D side-scrolling shoot 'em up (a genre I am surprised hasn't been featured in more CG's) so it won't be perfect on the iPhone but it could be fun if done right.
  • 4/17/2009 6:21 AM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    There's no such thing as "commercial quality".  Commercial products (anything offered for sale, essentially) have always widely varied in quality, throughout history.  I think the term you're looking for might be closer to "professional quality".
  • 4/17/2009 12:25 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    Jim Perry:
    Psyk60:
    Sure it's quicker to get a basic game up and running with the XNA framework than with native code. But if you wanted to do everything that Gears of War does and have it run just the same, that would be difficult. Presumably GoWII is pushing the hardware pretty hard. You may be able to do it with the framework as it is now, but it would involve a lot of workarounds.

    "Presumably", "may". Until someone tries, no one will ever know. End of story.

    True, but it's known that the current version of the framework has problems with floating point performance. Given that limitation we can have a pretty good guess that it would be hard to squeeze out the performance necessary for that sort of game.
  • 4/17/2009 12:48 PM In reply to

    Re: List Of Commercial Games Made With XNA

    It is true programming GOW in XNA (C# managed framework) would be a tough assignment. Hell 99.9999% of programmers couldn't even do it with native C++ / DirectX. It's an extreme example (unfortunately the poster you originally replied to used Halo 3 as an example which is probably just as extreme). But I think there are plenty of AAA games that could be done with the XNA C# managed framework.
Page 1 of 3 (52 posts) 1 2 3 Next > Previous Discussion Next Discussion