Xbox LIVE Indie Games
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Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

Last post 7/23/2008 3:44 AM by Nick Gravelyn. 282 replies.
  • 2/20/2008 2:48 PM

    Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    This thread is for discussions/questions related to the Feb 20th announcement of Xbox LIVE Community Games.  As always, make sure you read the Xbox LIVE Community Games FAQ first, otherwise the moderators are liable to smite thy post with furious anger.
  • 2/20/2008 4:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

     How will Xbox Live Community effect PC development? Would it be easy to make a game for community with just a PC? I have no Xbox 360(just a controller for my PC). I wonder if there will eventually be a Windows Live Community?

    Otherwise, I can't wait for XNA Game Studio 3.0, I just got Visual Studio 2008 from Microsoft Dreamspark.
  • 2/20/2008 4:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    This is definitely a step in the right direction.

    I'm a little concerned with the peer reviews, though.  Do all Creator's Club subscribers count as peer reviewers?  If so, it seems like there could be issues with people just giving out bad ratings for the fun of it and preventing good games from getting online.  On the flip side, just having "super members" be peer reviewers could incur just as many problems.


    The item in the FAQ regarding setting prices for your games is interesting.  I'm very curious how this one will work out.
  • 2/20/2008 4:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Xbox LIVE Community Games FAQ:
     Q: Does this mean Xbox LIVE Arcade is going away?
    A:  No. The design and goal for the Xbox LIVE Community Games is to provide a distribution channel for enthusiasts to share homebrew creations freely with their peers and friends. Some games may “graduate” to a full Arcade contract as the Dream Build Play game winners have done, but the idea is to offer a different venue for game creativity.

    Please, I would like to know if by "friends" you are referring to anybody who has XBOX Live (including Silver), anybody on your friends list, or any member of XNA Creators Club that is your friend.

    ¿This means that we, members of the Creator's Club, may offer Games to the public, if our own community thinks the game is appropiate?

     

  • 2/20/2008 4:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Like Tigernado, I'm also curious if there will be a windows component to this other than just the new community website?

    -jeff

     

  • 2/20/2008 4:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    I'll come out of lurking, has there been anything yet on what the filesize limits for this will be?
  • 2/20/2008 4:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    I have downloaded the new launcher (on market place) but I cant work out where to get the games, has anyone managed to find them?
  • 2/20/2008 4:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    The Anaconda:
    I'll come out of lurking, has there been anything yet on what the filesize limits for this will be?

    I had heard 64mb in the past but I think the arcade version of the console has a 256mb memory unit?  I wonder what the off the shelf memory cards hold?

  • 2/20/2008 4:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Kharza-kzad:

    The Anaconda:
    I'll come out of lurking, has there been anything yet on what the filesize limits for this will be?

    I had heard 64mb in the past but I think the arcade version of the console has a 256mb memory unit?  I wonder what the off the shelf memory cards hold?

    that was the old LIVE Arcade requirements, and I believe those were raised. so we'll be constrained to LIVE Arcade requirements for size?

    EDIT: the current LIVE Arcade limit is 150 MB, IIRC
  • 2/20/2008 4:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    JeffWeber:

    Like Tigernado, I'm also curious if there will be a windows component to this other than just the new community website?

    -jeff

    If you mean XNA Community games being distributable for Windows in the same way they will be for the 360 - no, not at this time.

  • 2/20/2008 4:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    the biggest game of the new downloads is 131MB.

    (by the way you go to XNA in the dash and pres Y to get downloading - thats after downloading the new launcher thing)
  • 2/20/2008 5:20 PM In reply to

    Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion

    I have a question: Will there be a mechanism to get feedback on your game from people who play it? Or from the peer-review process?
  • 2/20/2008 5:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Tigernado:
     How will Xbox Live Community effect PC development?


    It won't.  The ability to upload your games to Xbox Live Marketplace only applies to Xbox games.
  • 2/20/2008 5:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    ShawMishrak:
    I'm a little concerned with the peer reviews, though.  Do all Creator's Club subscribers count as peer reviewers?  If so, it seems like there could be issues with people just giving out bad ratings for the fun of it and preventing good games from getting online.


    We have a reputation system for reviewers. Initially, several different people must review a game, and must all agree, before it will be published to Marketplace. If the initial reviewers disagree significantly, the system will wait for more reviews. After say 10 people reviewed it, and only 1 gave a different opinion to the other 9, we'd go ahead and ignore the minority opinion. If a reviewer consistently does badly, or even worse, gives the OK to a game which we later have to pull down because of a user complaint, that reviewer gets a worse reputation so their opinion counts less in future. Similiarly, if a reviewer is good (has reviwed many games, no complaints about games they review, consistently agrees with other reviewers, etc) they get a better reputation, so their opinion carries more weight.

    ShawMishrak:
    The item in the FAQ regarding setting prices for your games is interesting.  I'm very curious how this one will work out.


    We don't have any details on that side of things yet, other than what is in the FAQ.
  • 2/20/2008 5:27 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Baltico X:

    Please, I would like to know if by "friends" you are referring to anybody who has XBOX Live (including Silver), anybody on your friends list, or any member of XNA Creators Club that is your friend.


    Anyone on Live (including Silver).

    Baltico X:
    ¿This means that we, members of the Creator's Club, may offer Games to the public, if our own community thinks the game is appropiate?



    Exactly.
  • 2/20/2008 5:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    The Anaconda:
    I'll come out of lurking, has there been anything yet on what the filesize limits for this will be?


    I believe it is the same as for XBLA, currently 150 meg.

    The download is compressed, though, so it's ok to have a bigger game as long as it comes in under 150 meg when packed up. The best way to test this is to build your game into a .ccgame package and examine the size of that.
  • 2/20/2008 5:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Shawn Hargreaves:
    The Anaconda:
    I'll come out of lurking, has there been anything yet on what the filesize limits for this will be?


    I believe it is the same as for XBLA, currently 150 meg.

    The download is compressed, though, so it's ok to have a bigger game as long as it comes in under 150 meg when packed up. The best way to test this is to build your game into a .ccgame package and examine the size of that.
    cool, sounds good! and nice to hear that thats the compressed size limit, could allow for quite a bit with well-managed resources that compress well
  • 2/20/2008 5:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Shawn Hargreaves:

    We have a reputation system for reviewers. Initially, several different people must review a game, and must all agree, before it will be published to Marketplace. If the initial reviewers disagree significantly, the system will wait for more reviews. After say 10 people reviewed it, and only 1 gave a different opinion to the other 9, we'd go ahead and ignore the minority opinion. If a reviewer consistently does badly, or even worse, gives the OK to a game which we later have to pull down because of a user complaint, that reviewer gets a worse reputation so their opinion counts less in future. Similiarly, if a reviewer is good (has reviwed many games, no complaints about games they review, consistently agrees with other reviewers, etc) they get a better reputation, so their opinion carries more weight.

    Will it be possible to upload newer ( Patched ) versions of a game?  Such as in a situation that a critical bug slips through the peer review process and is found by users?

    Will there be a connect system for users to file bugs found in our games?

    I know you can't speak of it right now, but I sure am curious how the business model works for games we creators are allowed to set a price on.  IE...refunds, customer complaints, etc...

    - Matt D

  • 2/20/2008 5:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Hopefully this the correct thread for this. I assume this new system is for Original Games only. So  that joe blow couldnt make a game based off mario or halo characters and then have it published on xbox live. I would assume that the original developers of those characters would go after you.
  • 2/20/2008 6:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread


    Oh ok. I do eventually want to get a Xbox 360 anyway.

    (now I wish Nintendo had its own creator's club for wii/ds...heh)
  • 2/20/2008 6:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    I'm curious why there should be a download limit in the 150MB range given that (at least according to the creators club game launcher) it'll be hard drive only? Of course, if this is just a temporary thing and memory card users are included come the beta/full release then it's more understandable. Demos appear to be allowed to be as big as necessary, I've seen some over 1.3GB, and arguably you'd get less gameplay from such a demo than you would from Dishwasher or Little Gamers. Is this limit set in stone, or is it going to track with the XBLA limit?
  • 2/20/2008 6:27 PM In reply to

    Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion

    Here's what is perhaps the biggest question:

    Will users have to pay extra to access this service?

    The service seems like quasi-Newgrounds, except, much of the popularity of Newgrounds comes about because it's free. From a user's standpoint, I would not pay for Newgrounds upon browsing because I'd just see a bunch of crappy Flash movies to wade through. Similarly, I would not pay for an XNA service because most of the stuff that's on there will be, well, crap, and not worth the money.

    If the service itself is free, it could work out since users would browse around and pay for the games that they like. If not...it will probably be a ghost town. This is a big issue because it decides what we want to do as far as publishing goes for those of us that are doing polished, completed titles.

  • 2/20/2008 6:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    Does MS plan to let us developers have the option to offer games (after being approved, of course) for free to the end user?
  • 2/20/2008 6:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    In the faq, it says yes.
  • 2/20/2008 6:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Xbox LIVE Community Games Discussion thread

    So what is to stop professional game companies making games with XNA, and avoiding the whole costly submission / extensive testing processes etc.

    I can see companies using it as an easy way to get content out there, with their wider skill sets and finances they would be able to crush bedroom projects. Obviously the profits and promotion wont be up there with a normal live title, but still if it gets around what is considered the main cost of developing a live title then I can see it being appealing.

    On the flip side, the company I work for has been stung with lower than expected XBLA sales, and are now considering not going ahead with their next XBLA project (which has gone through MS concept submission and been approved) I would imagine news such as this is more likely to make the company decide against developing the title, due to the potential of an even more diluted market.

    I guess MS could up the quality control a bit...but at the moment "The Dishwasher" XNA game is clearly better than 80% of arcade titles out there...and if given a release will probably sell a shed load, taking sales away from more mediocre official XBLA releases, and futher panicing some developers/publishers.

    This doesnt stop this being the greatest thing ever! I just wanted to know the how this was going to be approached, as no doubt it will be the centre of the office chat tomorrow!
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