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XNA & .Net 4

Last post 1/23/2011 8:38 PM by MickyD. 15 replies.
  • 3/24/2010 4:51 PM

    XNA & .Net 4

    I realize XNA 4 is just being released but I'm curious to know when support for the .Net 4 Framework will be implemented? I am currently working on a transportation simulator. In order to support the large number of concurrent entities I will be writing it to support multithreading. The .Net 4 framework contains a number of enhancements for parallel programming so I'd much rather write for that framework than the current one and have to create those features myself. Considering that it will likely take the better part of a year to complete the project, .Net 4 should be fairly standard at time of release.

    I should point out that I will only be releasing on the PC.
  • 3/24/2010 4:58 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    The next release of XNA should include .NET 4.0 support, since it's going to require VS2010.  As for release date, I don't think it's been announced yet.  It would stand to reason that it will be after VS2010's release, and before Windows Phone 7 comes out, but a more precise date isn't publicly known yet, I don't think.
  • 3/24/2010 8:50 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    In the CTP that is currently available, you can already use .NET Framework 4.0. What kind of support for .NET Framework 4.0 do you feel still needs to be implemented?

    The final release of Game Studio 4.0 will require .NET Framework 4.0 to run XNA Framework applications/games on Windows. The release date for Game Studio 4.0 has not been announced.
  • 3/24/2010 8:53 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    I haven't looked at the details yet and I assume the answer is somewhere, but just quickly: is the Game Studio 4.0 considered usable with a few odd things missing or does it have stability issues and important pieces missing? I'm just wondering how usable it is at this point.
  • 3/24/2010 11:01 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    Thomas Djafari:
    I haven't looked at the details yet and I assume the answer is somewhere, but just quickly: is the Game Studio 4.0 considered usable with a few odd things missing or does it have stability issues and important pieces missing? I'm just wondering how usable it is at this point.
    For what purpose?

    It's a CTP release (Community Technology Preview) geared toward Windows Phone developers. As a CTP, it is less stable than a beta, and has many known issues (see the release notes). Since it's a CTP of the Windows Phone tools, it is missing any ability to develop for Xbox 360. If you're working on a Windows or Xbox 360 game, you should continue using GS 3.1 for the time being, since we can't tell you when 4.0 will be released and you wouldn't want to release anything using the CTP runtimes.

    For evaluation purposes and to get a sneak peek at what's coming, it should be quite valuable. For developers targeting Windows Phone, it's the best (and only) option so far.
  • 3/25/2010 3:11 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    Thanks Stephen, that answers my question. I haven't looked at the current CTP as I thought it was only targeting the Phone but I'll have a look and see if it is workable.
  • 3/25/2010 3:33 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    PhenotypeGameStudios:
    I haven't looked at the current CTP as I thought it was only targeting the Phone but I'll have a look and see if it is workable.

    It does primarily target the phone. However, because the Content Pipeline depends on the XNA Framework, you can't have Game Studio without a Windows version of the XNA Framework available to build your content. So even though it is specifically a CTP for the WP7 Developer Tools, it also provides the ability to develop for Windows. Without it, you wouldn't be able to build a content pipeline extension.

    I guess I don't really understand your question, even though you said I answered it. You asked when would support for .NET Framework 4.0 be implemented. It has already been implemented, as seen in the CTP... So were you asking for the release date? We can't tell you because the date isn't public yet.

    Remember, the CTP is a pre-release version. It's meant to preview the tech. If you're targeting Windows, I don't recommend moving development to the CTP, because you don't know when the official runtime will be released.
  • 3/26/2010 7:31 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    I was trying to determine when I can start working with .Net 4, so I was not so much looking for the release date but the time at which a .Net 4 compatible version of GS would be available for development. I will have a look at the CTP and see if it is workable. It is going to be a while before I release this project so I think it is potentially more efficient to work with the CTP rather than having to do a port later, especially considering that this will impact the core object model. It would be interesting to know if XNA 4 implements any of the new .Net 4 multithreading features. Specifically, it would be nice to be able to do rendering on a thread that isn't the main thread.
  • 3/26/2010 11:35 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    The XNA Framework 4.0 will not use any of the parallel classes to automatically distribute work across cores. Those features are not supported by either the Windows Phone or Xbox 360 runtimes, and boosting the performance of the framework only on Windows has not been a high priority for us. (I'm sure you'll find most people in these forums will agree that we need to focus on the other platforms way before looking at performance in Windows.)
  • 4/16/2010 10:10 AM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    The question still stands though as to what type of .NET support there will be for GS 4.0 and .NET 4.0

    IS it going to be:
    • Stay as it is on the XBOX and target .NET 3.5 with Visual Studio 2010 (since just having VS2010 does not guarantee.NET 4 with platform targeting)
    • Full .NET 4 framework on the XBOX (unlikely since the .NET 3.5 framework is a modified version of the .NET 3. compact framework for XNA)
    • a .NET 4 compact edition with XNA enhancements.
    Nothing I've seen to date seems to answer this since most of the information (as stated before) is targeted at the Windows Phone 7 platform which runs either Silverlight and a customised XNA framework (unknown what .NET version, but I suspect 4.0 compact)
    As per usual with the new Beta for XNA GS, we cannot target the XBOX until the infamous XBOX CC update and probably a dashboard update if .NET 4.0 is in the cards.

    Time will tell (or some hidden gem in a blog or Shawn pops his head up ;-), he has been blogging a lot lately)
  • 4/21/2010 11:24 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    Darkside:
    The question still stands though as to what type of .NET support there will be for GS 4.0 and .NET 4.0
    There isn't any such thing as ".NET", so I'm pretty sure the questions that were asked have been answered. The XNA Framework for Xbox and Windows Phone will target a version of .NET Compact Framework, which is not .NET Framework 4.0 no matter what version number it has.

    I don't believe there is such a thing as .NET Compact Framework 4.0, so any questions about ".NET 4.0" are about .NET Framework 4.0, which is a Windows-only technology. The Xbox 360 and Windows Phone implementations of XNA Framework 4.0 will not target .NET Framework 4.0. They will target customized implementations of .NET Compact Framework.

    For the purposes of "what works on which platform" kind of questions, .NET Framework 4.0 will continue to be Windows only. Please try to recognize that .NET Framework 4.0 is a set of specific assemblies for a specific implementation of the CLR. It isn't the same thing as C# 4.0, nor does it describe a cross-platform API. Please try to ask a more specific question if you feel something hasn't been answered yet.

    I'm pretty sure the NetCF for Windows Phone is version 3.7. Ideally, we'll end up with the same version on Xbox 360 as Windows Phone for XNA Framework 4.0, but I don't think we've made any such announcements yet. In the past, we've always used the same version of NetCF for Zune and Xbox 360, but they were different implementations and not fully compatible with one another. Compatibility details are things you won't get until we make an official announcement.
  • 1/23/2011 3:13 AM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    i realise that advanced features such as TPL not being available, but i am wondering why there is an apparent discrepancy in the final Windows Phone 7 Developer Tools as to why some projects may use .NET four (4) core features and some may not?

    e.g.

     

    • Windows Phone Panorama applications may use .NET optional parameters in c# .NET 4 CLR 4
    • XNA games for Windows Phone 7 may not use optional parameters in c# since such projects appear to be CLR 2/3 only
  • 1/23/2011 4:26 AM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    MickyD:
    i realise that advanced features such as TPL not being available, but i am wondering why there is an apparent discrepancy in the final Windows Phone 7 Developer Tools as to why some projects may use .NET four (4) core features and some may not?
    On Windows Phone 7, the same set of C# 4.0 features are supported for all projects. Please note that optional parameters are a C# language feature, not a .NET Framework 4.0 feature.

    MickyD:
    Windows Phone Panorama applications may use .NET optional parameters in c# .NET 4 CLR 4
    • XNA games for Windows Phone 7 may not use optional parameters in c# since such projects appear to be CLR 2/3 only
    This example is inaccurate. You can use optional parameters in either kind of project.

    You are perhaps mistaken because of the difference in project defaults. A Windows Phone Silverlight project defaults to supporting C# 4.0 features, even though not all C# 4.0 features are supported. In XNA projects, the default is set to restrict C# language features to C# 3.0.

    To change the default in an XNA project, open the project Properties Designer (in Solution Explorer, double-click the Properties node under the project, or right-click the project node and select Properties). Activate the Build tab, then click the button at the bottom, called "Advanced...". On the Advanced Build Settings page, change the language version combobox to "default". That will eliminate the language restriction.

  • 1/23/2011 4:43 AM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    the c# language didnt have optional params until v4 [1].

    thanks for pointing out where to target v4 on build.advanced, a funny place to put it.  having target framework dimmed out on the application tab makes for a confusing user interface

    [1] wheres vb.net had it for eons. a kick in the head for us c++ programmers
  • 1/23/2011 4:29 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    MickyD:
    the c# language didnt have optional params until v4 [1].
    Correct, but you wrote earlier that optional parameters was a feature of ".NET 4". The C# language version is independent of the .NET Framework version.

    MickyD:
    having target framework dimmed out on the application tab makes for a confusing user interface
    The target framework property doesn't have anything to do with optional parameters. Again, it's a language feature, not a framework feature. In VS 2010, you can create a C# Windows project that targets .NET Framework 3.0 and uses optional parameters. This is because in VS 2010, you use the C# 4.0 compiler, regardless of which framework you're targeting.
  • 1/23/2011 8:38 PM In reply to

    Re: XNA & .Net 4

    thanks for clearing that up for me stephen.

    anyway, im happy that you showed me how to get opt. parameters going in the end. :)

    have a good day
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